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But be aware that querying NANPA blocks is not enough; for 10,000
blocks, you can just get the office code spreadsheet off their site.
But many blocks are pooled into thousand blocks, which is a system
administered by Neustar. 678-336 is an example. To see how it's split
up, you can go to www.nationalpooling.com. Telcodata.us and
localcallingguide.com will also tell you this, although not always in a
wholly up-to-date manner.
Nationalpooling.com, unlike some of the buried resources on NANPA's
site, appears to be specifically designed to prevent automated data
collection and scraping. I imagine it is possible to get the data from
them in a more machine-processable way, but it requires that you be a
carrier (try to sign up for an account to see what I mean).
As Nathan said, you will still be mostly right, most of the time,
without LNP dips. Relatively few ports go on in the wireline world
outside of business related to VoIP service providers, which are a very
DID-intensive industry.
Nathan Shadle wrote:
> So this is a loaded question...
>
> The short, yet inaccurate, answer is that I use http://telcodata.us/
>
> The longwinded answer goes like this:
> With the advent of Number Portability (both Local Number Portability and
> Wireless Number Portability), that data changes on a day-to-day basis as
> users swap from provider to provider, and other reasons numbers might
> shift from one carrier to another. The only true maintainer of which
> provider serves a particular number is NANPA (which contracts Neustar to
> handle this), which is who the carriers report their changes and ports
> to. Even the major carriers get daily updates to this data, or they
> query Neustar themselves.
>
> There are a number of somewhat expensive methods to access this data
> (I say expensive to mean it's cost prohibitive for many small
> businesses). Most revolve around getting SS7 access (equipment and
> service) or getting an account with Neustar directly (which often
> requires you to be a carrier yourself). You can pay a number of
> companies like Verisign or NetNumber per query (which, just get their
> data from Neustar). You might be able to locate a provider who will
> offer to provide queries for you, say, through HTTP, but I'm reasonably
> certain (if I remember correctly from my Neustar legal documentation)
> that they expressly forbid this, and require that the data just be used
> for routing.
>
> So, your best bet might be to use a database like I've mentioned above
> with a "best guess" approach. All my research leads me to believe you'll
> get somewhere around 95% accuracy, though perhaps more for wireless
> because people tend not to port wireless numbers as frequently.
>
> Nathan
--
Alex Balashov
Evariste Systems
Web : http://www.evaristesys.com/
Tel : (+1) (678) 954-0670
Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671
Mobile : (+1) (706) 338-8599
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> My 936-687-xxxx Windstream/Valor/GTE/Contel number is not portable by
> anybody. If anyone can actually port this, let me know, I'd much rather
> send you money (and you send me the calls via SIP or IAX) than paying too
> much for a POTS line I do nothing with except program call forwarding (to a
> local SIP DID) on once a year or so...
Windstream will allow port-outs, but the catch is that you have to be
directly interconnected with the serving tandem.
No, not "have an interconnection agreement in place" as with some folks
-- actually be interconnected.
If you can find a CLEC in that LATA that meets Windstream at its tandem
for that NXX, it should be manageable.
However, as a general rule, porting out of independents is difficult,
sometimes impossible.
--
Alex Balashov
Evariste Systems
Web : http://www.evaristesys.com/
Tel : (+1) (678) 954-0670
Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671
Mobile : (+1) (706) 338-8599
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> I couldn't find any information on Neustar's site regarding accessing
> their DB, and I certainly don't want to pay someone like Mblox 3-5cents
> per lookup.
Also, the NDAs prevent disclosure of the LNP dip information outside of
the entity doing the lookups. I am not sure if some subset of the TCAP
result set is exempt from that, like the terminating carrier OCN or the
LRN, or something else you might be able to get away with using. Most
likely nothing.
--
Alex Balashov
Evariste Systems
Web : http://www.evaristesys.com/
Tel : (+1) (678) 954-0670
Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671
Mobile : (+1) (706) 338-8599
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> I couldn't find any information on Neustar's site regarding accessing
> their DB, and I certainly don't want to pay someone like Mblox 3-5cents
> per lookup. And I'm guessing accessing Neustar's DB is not going to be
> cheap anyway, does anyone know their costs?
NPAC (LNP database) access from Neustar is available either via dial-up
VPN or dedicated circuit (frame relay?), which runs a few hundred
dollars a month + a large initial setup fee.
This is only available to real LECs - that is, if you have an OCN, CLLIs
and SS7 point codes.
There is an LNPoIP product available as well called sipX, and similar
terms apply. In addition, you must sign NDAs for all NPAC territories
and present evidence of substantial general liability insurance and
workman's compensation insurance, where applicable.
In short, this service is not for the masses, and you probably can't
have it unless you're a CLEC.
--
Alex Balashov
Evariste Systems
Web : http://www.evaristesys.com/
Tel : (+1) (678) 954-0670
Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671
Mobile : (+1) (706) 338-8599
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My 936-546-6479 number was not portable. That's a Verizon Wireless number
out of a Windstream/Valor/GTE/Contel exchange. AT&T couldn't/wouldn't port
it (who sells numbers out of the same 936-546 exchange) and Sprint said they
couldn't touch it. Now I'm a happy Sprint customer in a portable
cellular-only block.
My 936-687-xxxx Windstream/Valor/GTE/Contel number is not portable by
anybody. If anyone can actually port this, let me know, I'd much rather
send you money (and you send me the calls via SIP or IAX) than paying too
much for a POTS line I do nothing with except program call forwarding (to a
local SIP DID) on once a year or so...
Of course, this is also one of those pathetic places in Texas where there's
no electric competition. It's always nice to pay double everyone else's
rate per KW/h.
JS
-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of SIP
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 8:55 AM
To: alougher@yahoo.com; Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Wireless lookup service
By law, it's required of all carriers in the US.... which is what,
now... Verizon and AT&T (are there others anymore?).
N.
Al Lougher wrote:
> You are correct, I missed that. For some reason I thought portability
> only applied to wireless numbers, I didn't realize you could port from
> land line to wireless. Can that happen with all major US carriers or
> say just AT&T?
>
> Thanks
>
> Alan
>
>
> --- On *Thu, 7/31/08, Kevin P. Fleming /<kpfleming@digium.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: Kevin P. Fleming <kpfleming@digium.com>
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Wireless lookup service
> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion"
> <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
> Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 6:13 AM
>
> Al Lougher wrote:
> > Thanks for the info. For some reason I thought Paul had shut his
> > business down sometime ago otherwise that would
> have been my first stop.
> > I do know he had the data previously because I bought some data over
a
> > year ago. I seem to remember the carrier information was not 100%
> > accurate, however determining the carrier is not a priority, as long
as
> > it tells me it's wireless that's all that matters. It is my
> > understanding carriers purchase blocks of numbers so really even if
> > NPANXX lookup gives me the answer then that's all I need.
>
> You missed the entire point of the previous messages in this thread;
now
> that the US has number portability, 'number blocks' are a thing of the
> past. I have many friends who have ported previously-wireline numbers
> onto wireless services, but if you go by the 'number blocks' those
> numbers will appear to be wireline.
>
> Depending on how accurate your 'wireless or wireline' query needs to
be
> (and the potential ramifications of it being wrong, say, if you
> are
> telemarketing) this could make a big difference.
>
> --
> Kevin P. Fleming
> Director of Software Technologies
> Digium, Inc. - "The Genuine Asterisk Experience" (TM)
>
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>
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>
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People buy from telemarketers, spammers, door to door salesmen. I
would do none of that, I am simply answering a call that "they"
initiated and could terminate at any time with no charge, it's toll
free!
Thanks,
Steve Totaro
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 5:32 PM, C. Savinovich
<c.savinovich@itntelecom.com> wrote:
>>>If you are questioning ethics, then state it.
>
> You are saying that my question/s are implying that there are questionable
> ethics on your uniquely fantastic and terrific idea? That's too funny... I
> tell you, I am roaring with laughter here... there is no way that can be
> interpreted as such.
>
> CS
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
> [mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:21 PM
> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Any Cellular Phone Related Businesses in
> CanadaInterested in Call Transfers?
>
> Your question not is too difficult, or too rhetorical. If you are
> questioning ethics, then state it. I had already said that I would
> not mislead any caller into thinking they reached the destination they
> intended, I would correct the Canadian cell phone company at the end
> of the IVR (under no obligation BTW).
>
> How do I know that they have reached the number in error? Maybe I
> have the same transfer partners through my own business and
> advertising? There will be no operator, just IVRs.
>
> Delinquent accounts on a cell phone do not correlate with fixing, or
> poor credit so that point is moot, at least in the USA, although that
> could be a helpful service for some callers.
>
> Your "rephrased question for better understanding" does not help for
> better understanding, sorry.
>
> Nigel Dennis, if you are still interested, email me directly (or anyone
> else)
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 7:58 PM, C. Savinovich
> <c.savinovich@itntelecom.com> wrote:
>>>>I guess you didn't read the whole thread or you would understand that
>>>>helpful or similar products would be offered, not a toaster.......
>>>>This is the delinquent cell phone bill line after all.
>>
>> Of course I read the whole thread. My question, rephrased for better
>> understanding is/was: Operator answers the call and says "You reached this
>> number in error, this is not the delinquent phone bill line, but we can
> fix
>> your credit nevertheless..." ...I am basically being skeptical that there
>> will be a positive public response to this, but I may be wrong, and if I
> am,
>> I would welcome a response. But, perhaps the question is too difficult,
> or
>> too rhetorical.
>>
>> CS
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
>> [mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 6:27 PM
>> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Any Cellular Phone Related Businesses in
>> CanadaInterested in Call Transfers?
>>
>> The mobile carrier has published my very similar number by mistake in
>> their contact information somewhere. There would be no deception.
>> Just offerings that may match the demographic. People that for
>> whatever reason are delinquent on their bills.
>>
>> I am not sure what you don't get. Offering alternate services that
>> match the demographic while making it clear that they have not reached
>> the company they intended.
>>
>> The correct number would be given at the end of the IVR, sales pitch,
>> or transfer.
>>
>> I guess you didn't read the whole thread or you would understand that
>> helpful or similar products would be offered, not a toaster.......
>> This is the delinquent cell phone bill line after all.
>>
>> 1+1=1, no, it equals two.....
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Steve T
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 5:56 PM, C. Savinovich
>> <c.savinovich@itntelecom.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Excuse my ignorance, but I don't understand... caller lands by mistake
>>> because he/she thinks they are calling the customer service number of X
>>> mobile carrier. And then what? If Y company answers the call, what are
>> they
>>> going to do with it? Are they going to pretend they are the X mobile
>>> carrier? Are they going to say "look, we are not X mobile carrier, but we
>>> can sell you toasters?... I don't get it... where is the value of these
>> lost
>>> calls?
>>>
>>> C. Savinovich
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
>>> [mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 9:47 AM
>>> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Any Cellular Phone Related Businesses in
>>> CanadaInterested in Call Transfers?
>>>
>>> I have thought this out a bit. The number is a toll free 888 vanity
>>> that I paid for because it is so memorable. I did a test with my
>>> eight year old niece. I told her the number and asked that she
>>> remember it. A week later, I asked her the number and recall was
>>> immediate.
>>>
>>> Anyways, I am up for bids. The number is very memorable and to clear
>>> things up, my number is 888, their number is 800, but someone messed
>>> up and pucblished my number.
>>>
>>> My thoughts on this are as follows:
>>> 1. Block international calls which I would not really want to do.
>>> 2. Have an IVR with different/companiies offers relating to products
>>> that may be of interest to the caller to choose from.
>>> 3. Link up with one company and they take the calls.
>>>
>>> As to the price, it would vary.based on the indented service and what
>>> it is worth to you. $2 U$D seems like a fee if the call goes over two
>>> minitue, less than two minutes, no charge. A two dollar qualified
>>> leads is a bargain.
>>>
>>> Still thinking this through. Suggestions and ideas are more than
> welcome.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Steve T
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 9:23 PM, <nigel.dennis@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>>> Hi Steve,
>>>>
>>>> I am interested. I do run a related business in Canada.
>>>> Ontario to be exact. What do you want for the call transfer?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nigel Dennis
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: "Steve Totaro" <stotaro@totarotechnologies.com>
>>>> Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
>>>> Discussion<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
>>>> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
>>>> Discussion"<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
>>>> Subject: [asterisk-biz] Any Cellular Phone Related Businesses in
>>>> CanadaInterested in Call Transfers?
>>>> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:12:02 -0400
>>>>>I have a phone number that has erroneously been published by one of
>>>>>the larger cell phone companies in Canada. The only issue is that the
>>>>>line is for delinquent accounts.
>>>>>
>>>>>I get between 30-100 calls a day for that cellular company. The
>>>>>number itself is extremely memorable. Instead of blocking Canadian
>>>>>callers, I thought maybe someone on the list would be willing to pay
>>>>>for these call transfers.
>>>>>
>>>>>I see an ideal candidate for this idea being in the prepaid cellular
>>>>>biz, debt consolidation, credit, loans or whatever.
>>>>>
>>>>>Just a thought, but I am sure these callers could be worth something,
>>>>>rather than costing me time and money (although I look very popular
>>>>>because my phone rings all the time.)
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>Steve Totaro
>>>>>
>
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I am unsure what you are saying here about "speculation" please
provide a source for your info.
I would keep the number most likely and either route Canadian callers
to an IVR with offers in-line with with people in the same demographic
of being late on their cell phone bill or if a firm was very
interested, such as a prepaid Canadian cell phone company, I would
route the call directly to them.
US callers would go to the original destination that I obtained the
toll free number for.
Being a toll-free ANI is provided, although not foolproof but good
enough to separate the US caller from the Canadian cell phone line.
Does that qualify as "speculation"? I am offered all kinds of junk
while on hold or listening to a greeting when calling X company on a
regular basis.
Thanks,
Steve Totaro
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After two fiascos, let's try this again. I'm not positive John Todd
will be available, so we will play it by ear. If he is, we can talk
about Astricon news and Asterisk User Groups as planned. If John can't
make it, we'll talk about anything anyone wants to discuss. There is
plenty happening in VoIP at the moment.
http://VoipUsersConference.org has all the info to dial in to the call
via POTS, SIP or beheaded chicken.
The text channel is IRC on freenode.net # voip-users-conference
RSS feed is http://feeds.feedburner.com/AstUser to subscribe. You can
also use iTunes if that's your thing.
To call the SIP URI, you can dial 123@ts.x2z.eu
To communicate the conference page to others you can use http://bit.ly/voip
For the rest, there's always http://google.com
Hope to see you all there!
r
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You are saying that my question/s are implying that there are questionable
ethics on your uniquely fantastic and terrific idea? That's too funny... I
tell you, I am roaring with laughter here... there is no way that can be
interpreted as such.
CS
-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:21 PM
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Any Cellular Phone Related Businesses in
CanadaInterested in Call Transfers?
Your question not is too difficult, or too rhetorical. If you are
questioning ethics, then state it. I had already said that I would
not mislead any caller into thinking they reached the destination they
intended, I would correct the Canadian cell phone company at the end
of the IVR (under no obligation BTW).
How do I know that they have reached the number in error? Maybe I
have the same transfer partners through my own business and
advertising? There will be no operator, just IVRs.
Delinquent accounts on a cell phone do not correlate with fixing, or
poor credit so that point is moot, at least in the USA, although that
could be a helpful service for some callers.
Your "rephrased question for better understanding" does not help for
better understanding, sorry.
Nigel Dennis, if you are still interested, email me directly (or anyone
else)
Thanks,
Steve
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 7:58 PM, C. Savinovich
<c.savinovich@itntelecom.com> wrote:
>>>I guess you didn't read the whole thread or you would understand that
>>>helpful or similar products would be offered, not a toaster.......
>>>This is the delinquent cell phone bill line after all.
>
> Of course I read the whole thread. My question, rephrased for better
> understanding is/was: Operator answers the call and says "You reached this
> number in error, this is not the delinquent phone bill line, but we can
fix
> your credit nevertheless..." ...I am basically being skeptical that there
> will be a positive public response to this, but I may be wrong, and if I
am,
> I would welcome a response. But, perhaps the question is too difficult,
or
> too rhetorical.
>
> CS
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
> [mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 6:27 PM
> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Any Cellular Phone Related Businesses in
> CanadaInterested in Call Transfers?
>
> The mobile carrier has published my very similar number by mistake in
> their contact information somewhere. There would be no deception.
> Just offerings that may match the demographic. People that for
> whatever reason are delinquent on their bills.
>
> I am not sure what you don't get. Offering alternate services that
> match the demographic while making it clear that they have not reached
> the company they intended.
>
> The correct number would be given at the end of the IVR, sales pitch,
> or transfer.
>
> I guess you didn't read the whole thread or you would understand that
> helpful or similar products would be offered, not a toaster.......
> This is the delinquent cell phone bill line after all.
>
> 1+1=1, no, it equals two.....
>
> Thanks,
> Steve T
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 5:56 PM, C. Savinovich
> <c.savinovich@itntelecom.com> wrote:
>>
>> Excuse my ignorance, but I don't understand... caller lands by mistake
>> because he/she thinks they are calling the customer service number of X
>> mobile carrier. And then what? If Y company answers the call, what are
> they
>> going to do with it? Are they going to pretend they are the X mobile
>> carrier? Are they going to say "look, we are not X mobile carrier, but we
>> can sell you toasters?... I don't get it... where is the value of these
> lost
>> calls?
>>
>> C. Savinovich
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
>> [mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 9:47 AM
>> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Any Cellular Phone Related Businesses in
>> CanadaInterested in Call Transfers?
>>
>> I have thought this out a bit. The number is a toll free 888 vanity
>> that I paid for because it is so memorable. I did a test with my
>> eight year old niece. I told her the number and asked that she
>> remember it. A week later, I asked her the number and recall was
>> immediate.
>>
>> Anyways, I am up for bids. The number is very memorable and to clear
>> things up, my number is 888, their number is 800, but someone messed
>> up and pucblished my number.
>>
>> My thoughts on this are as follows:
>> 1. Block international calls which I would not really want to do.
>> 2. Have an IVR with different/companiies offers relating to products
>> that may be of interest to the caller to choose from.
>> 3. Link up with one company and they take the calls.
>>
>> As to the price, it would vary.based on the indented service and what
>> it is worth to you. $2 U$D seems like a fee if the call goes over two
>> minitue, less than two minutes, no charge. A two dollar qualified
>> leads is a bargain.
>>
>> Still thinking this through. Suggestions and ideas are more than
welcome.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Steve T
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 9:23 PM, <nigel.dennis@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>> Hi Steve,
>>>
>>> I am interested. I do run a related business in Canada.
>>> Ontario to be exact. What do you want for the call transfer?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nigel Dennis
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: "Steve Totaro" <stotaro@totarotechnologies.com>
>>> Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
>>> Discussion<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
>>> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
>>> Discussion"<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
>>> Subject: [asterisk-biz] Any Cellular Phone Related Businesses in
>>> CanadaInterested in Call Transfers?
>>> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:12:02 -0400
>>>>I have a phone number that has erroneously been published by one of
>>>>the larger cell phone companies in Canada. The only issue is that the
>>>>line is for delinquent accounts.
>>>>
>>>>I get between 30-100 calls a day for that cellular company. The
>>>>number itself is extremely memorable. Instead of blocking Canadian
>>>>callers, I thought maybe someone on the list would be willing to pay
>>>>for these call transfers.
>>>>
>>>>I see an ideal candidate for this idea being in the prepaid cellular
>>>>biz, debt consolidation, credit, loans or whatever.
>>>>
>>>>Just a thought, but I am sure these callers could be worth something,
>>>>rather than costing me time and money (although I look very popular
>>>>because my phone rings all the time.)
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Steve Totaro
>>>>
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This is strange, because according to the tariffs, 909-822 and 909-944
are in a local calling area with respect to each other. It's not LD, so
you should not be paying any tolls. 909-822 and 909-944 are blocks
belonging to different ILECs, true, but they rate traffic as local
between each other.
The source for this information is http://www.localcallingguide.com/ ->
Area Code/Prefix/OCN. Put in 909-822, click on it in the results, and
you will get a list of all other rate centers local to it.
The information is not 100% accurate - it's published from commercial
tariff research, and I am not sure exactly on what terms.
> The office is moving to another verizon area
> (909-899, actually north fontana) and is just feet from the ATT/Verizon
> border. Verizon tells me the 909-822-xxxx number being held by ATT can
> not be moved to ring direct into the new location, so toll charges for
> inbound must still be paid. I was hoping to avoid that.
909-899 is a local rate center to 909-822 as well.
Perhaps the issue has to do with the way they rate and provision "call
forwarding" services vs. what is actually rated as a local call.
> What are the issues involved here? Technically with SS7 it would seem a
> number could ring anywhere. my 909 npa cell phone works just fine when
> on vacation in 941 or 808 and my 206 VoIP line finds me anywhere I have
> a connection to the net. What prevents this from being true with
> landlines? If this is a geograpic vs non-geographic issue then where
> can I find street level maps of what wire center serves what area
> thereby finding where to locate to be within a specific npa-nxx? Other
> than porting the number to VoIP, what solutions are available so inbound
> calls incur no toll charges to the called party?
LocalCallingGuide.com is your best bet for this type of information.
The real information is buried in thousands of pages of tariffs that the
ILECs file and is sold in commercial guidebooks and databases by various
consultancies that do this sort of thing, including some from Telcordia.
BTW, run away from anyone that advises you to get the LERG (Local
Exchange Routing Guide) from Telcordia; it's very useful, but has no
information on local rate center coverage.
Regarding the "geographic" issue - none of the reasons for this is
technical or geographic, but rather regulation and billing related:
Local carrier serving areas are split up into LATAs (Local Access and
Transport Areas). [1] LATAs are areas within which an ILEC operates,
and within which any CLEC must be interconnected with the ILEC in order
to provide service. Traffic that traverses between LATA boundaries is
known as IXC (Inter-Exchange Carrier) traffic, and this is a different
type of carrier than a LEC. However, certain types of intra-LATA
traffic (traffic that stays in one LATA) can be rated long-distance too
-- this is up to the fixed-line carrier. Originally, LATAs were
intended to be complete local calling areas, I think, but it never
worked out that way, so long distance rating areas exist within LATAs as
well as between them. They can be very arbitrary.
All the rate centers and NPA-NXXs mentioned above are in LATA 730, and
should be local calling areas according to the information given above.
Therefore, I am not sure what the basis of the carrier's suggestion
that you should be paying LD tolls is, unless it is something that
applies to their ring/forwarding service but not to straight-up calls.
If Verizon is an ILEC on the other side of that AT&T/Verizon border you
mentioned, because it was a formerly GTE territory, then you can't port
numbers across that border. You are likely to be able to find a CLEC
that interconnects with both carriers' tandems, though, and have them
hang a number in whatever rate center you need. But this should not be
necessary since all these calls are local.
-- Alex
[1] Enjoy a LATA map: http://www.robotics.net/clec/LATA_Map.html
--
Alex Balashov
Evariste Systems
Web : http://www.evaristesys.com/
Tel : (+1) (678) 954-0670
Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671
Mobile : (+1) (706) 338-8599
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With the sad demise of the VON conferences, there
has been a loss of one of the forums in which the
Asterisk community members would personally meet.
While we are disappointed that VON no longer
exists, we are encouraging anyone who would have
otherwise attended VON to come to Astricon as a
venue for the same purposes of face-to-face
meetings and technology review. (But we're a lot
lighter on the quantity of "marketing 'droids"
than VON was in it's last few years, which
perhaps is a good thing.)
Keynotes
========
While we'll have talk details in a future
message, we do have the list of keynote speakers
for Astricon 2008. We're happy to be able to
announce the following speakers:
Brian Aker - MySQL/Sun Microsystems Chief
Architect. Brian is one of the core architects
of the Open Source MySQL database, as well as
being an Asterisk enthusiast. His has a deep
understanding of the nature and process of open
source development in large projects, and
regularly speaks on the topics of open source
ideology, large-scale design, and how open
networks and open software can benefit users and
enterprises. Sun's role as a sponsor of
open-source software has increased dramatically
in the past several years, especially with the
acquisition of MySQL within the last year, and
Brian's insights into the open-source/commercial
worlds will be a fascinating overview.
Stefan Öberg - General Manager and Vice
President of Skype Telecom. Stefan has
previously served in different positions at
Tele2, the Swedish telecom operator, initially in
Sweden and then Estonia, and has an excellent
understanding of carrier, SMB, and residential
aspects of telephony. I am excited that Stefan
and Skype accepted our offer of a keynote spot,
as his company's perspectives on being the
world's most widely-used VoIP client and P2P
network will interest those in the Asterisk
community who are trying to parallel that success
with different methodologies and tools. I'm
certain that Stefan's talk and views will
generate good discussion throughout the
conference.
Content
=======
Again I'm pleased to say that this year is a
banner year for technical talks. We have over 60
talks in total, and three full tracks of
"advanced" technical discussions. In-depth case
studies on Unified Communications, discussions of
the new R2 stack, advanced PRI and SS7 sessions,
carrier topics, call center strategies, voice
recognition, STUN/TURN/ICE implementations - it's
a wide list of topics:
http://www.astricon.net/2008/glendale/web/confSchedule.php
There is also an entire track on business issues
- how to sell Asterisk against other platforms,
regulatory case studies, more open source
discussions, intellectual property and trademark
talk, and may more.
Contests
========
Jared Smith is going to be running two contests
at Astricon! I won't divulge too many details to
keep people from practicing too much, but the
concepts are: "Asterisk Quick-Draw" and
"Debug-Off". The first is a test to see who can
install Asterisk and get a given dialplan working
the fastest. The second contest will test your
debugging skills to find subtle and common
problems with *NIX systems, Asterisk, or VoIP
components that prevent calls from working
correctly. I'm sure that the crowd has plenty of
ringers for these two contests - bring your
Asterisk ninja outfits to intimidate your
opponents.
The prizes are pretty nice - Nokia n810 phones.
They run Linux - maybe someone can get * running
on it (if it's not already) once we award them.
What YOU can do to make Astricon better
=======================================
Are you attending? If so, please feel free to
put one of these graphics on your website, in
your blog postings, or anywhere else you think it
might be useful to collect interest and get
people to know that Astricon is coming up.
Attending:
http://www.astricon.net/2008/glendale/boxes/box_attending.jpg
Speaking:
http://www.astricon.net/2008/glendale/boxes/box_speaking.jpg
Exhibiting:
http://www.astricon.net/2008/glendale/boxes/box_exhibitor.jpg
See you there!
JT
--
--
John Todd
jtodd@digium.com +1-256-428-6083
Asterisk Open Source Community Director
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IANAL as well, however either there are a lot of stupid people who dial
a number not printed or the company in Canada and not under FCC
jurisdiction misprinted their number as one they dont own. There isnt
speculation in this arena since the number appears to originally have
been for something else and due to the flood of wrong numbers it became
less than suitable.
Either way the origination of the calls would be canadian and the FCC
would be hard pressed to justify jurisdiction there, although they dont
seem to have problems justifying jurisdiction in other places they dont
really have it, the 10th amendment, separation of powers doctrine and
other things that make the FCC unconstitutional in organization and
operation.
http://www.icbtollfree.com/pressetc/dialingfordollars.html talks about
the 1997 ruling by the FCC which made trading in numbers illegal.
Basically they didnt want the tollfree numbers themselves to be a money
making commodity. AFAIK this hasnt been recinded but many violate this
ruling in the US by selling different numbers at different prices, by
buying memorable numbers for resale (similar to domain squatting).
Unless there is another order that you were thinking of I dont think
what steve is trying to do (forward calls off it) is covered by this
one. The article even goes into a "sharing" thing where 1 memorable
tollfree routes to multiple companies, highly similar to what steve is
doing.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
Belfast +44 28 9099 6461 US +1 516 687 5200
http://www.trxtel.com the phone company that pays you!
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IANAL, but my understanding is that speculation on toll-free numbers is
prohibited by the FCC.
There seem to be a bunch of people on eBay trying to get around
prohibition this by renting you toll-free numbers.
Regards,
Richard Siddall
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How do I know that they have reached the number in error? Maybe I
have the same transfer partners through my own business and
advertising? There will be no operator, just IVRs.
Delinquent accounts on a cell phone do not correlate with fixing, or
poor credit so that point is moot, at least in the USA, although that
could be a helpful service for some callers.
Your "rephrased question for better understanding" does not help for
better understanding, sorry.
Nigel Dennis, if you are still interested, email me directly (or anyone else)
Thanks,
Steve
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 7:58 PM, C. Savinovich
<c.savinovich@itntelecom.com> wrote:
>>>I guess you didn't read the whole thread or you would understand that
>>>helpful or similar products would be offered, not a toaster.......
>>>This is the delinquent cell phone bill line after all.
>
> Of course I read the whole thread. My question, rephrased for better
> understanding is/was: Operator answers the call and says "You reached this
> number in error, this is not the delinquent phone bill line, but we can fix
> your credit nevertheless..." ...I am basically being skeptical that there
> will be a positive public response to this, but I may be wrong, and if I am,
> I would welcome a response. But, perhaps the question is too difficult, or
> too rhetorical.
>
> CS
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
> [mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 6:27 PM
> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Any Cellular Phone Related Businesses in
> CanadaInterested in Call Transfers?
>
> The mobile carrier has published my very similar number by mistake in
> their contact information somewhere. There would be no deception.
> Just offerings that may match the demographic. People that for
> whatever reason are delinquent on their bills.
>
> I am not sure what you don't get. Offering alternate services that
> match the demographic while making it clear that they have not reached
> the company they intended.
>
> The correct number would be given at the end of the IVR, sales pitch,
> or transfer.
>
> I guess you didn't read the whole thread or you would understand that
> helpful or similar products would be offered, not a toaster.......
> This is the delinquent cell phone bill line after all.
>
> 1+1=1, no, it equals two.....
>
> Thanks,
> Steve T
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 5:56 PM, C. Savinovich
> <c.savinovich@itntelecom.com> wrote:
>>
>> Excuse my ignorance, but I don't understand... caller lands by mistake
>> because he/she thinks they are calling the customer service number of X
>> mobile carrier. And then what? If Y company answers the call, what are
> they
>> going to do with it? Are they going to pretend they are the X mobile
>> carrier? Are they going to say "look, we are not X mobile carrier, but we
>> can sell you toasters?... I don't get it... where is the value of these
> lost
>> calls?
>>
>> C. Savinovich
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
>> [mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 9:47 AM
>> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Any Cellular Phone Related Businesses in
>> CanadaInterested in Call Transfers?
>>
>> I have thought this out a bit. The number is a toll free 888 vanity
>> that I paid for because it is so memorable. I did a test with my
>> eight year old niece. I told her the number and asked that she
>> remember it. A week later, I asked her the number and recall was
>> immediate.
>>
>> Anyways, I am up for bids. The number is very memorable and to clear
>> things up, my number is 888, their number is 800, but someone messed
>> up and pucblished my number.
>>
>> My thoughts on this are as follows:
>> 1. Block international calls which I would not really want to do.
>> 2. Have an IVR with different/companiies offers relating to products
>> that may be of interest to the caller to choose from.
>> 3. Link up with one company and they take the calls.
>>
>> As to the price, it would vary.based on the indented service and what
>> it is worth to you. $2 U$D seems like a fee if the call goes over two
>> minitue, less than two minutes, no charge. A two dollar qualified
>> leads is a bargain.
>>
>> Still thinking this through. Suggestions and ideas are more than welcome.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Steve T
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 9:23 PM, <nigel.dennis@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>> Hi Steve,
>>>
>>> I am interested. I do run a related business in Canada.
>>> Ontario to be exact. What do you want for the call transfer?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nigel Dennis
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: "Steve Totaro" <stotaro@totarotechnologies.com>
>>> Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
>>> Discussion<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
>>> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
>>> Discussion"<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
>>> Subject: [asterisk-biz] Any Cellular Phone Related Businesses in
>>> CanadaInterested in Call Transfers?
>>> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:12:02 -0400
>>>>I have a phone number that has erroneously been published by one of
>>>>the larger cell phone companies in Canada. The only issue is that the
>>>>line is for delinquent accounts.
>>>>
>>>>I get between 30-100 calls a day for that cellular company. The
>>>>number itself is extremely memorable. Instead of blocking Canadian
>>>>callers, I thought maybe someone on the list would be willing to pay
>>>>for these call transfers.
>>>>
>>>>I see an ideal candidate for this idea being in the prepaid cellular
>>>>biz, debt consolidation, credit, loans or whatever.
>>>>
>>>>Just a thought, but I am sure these callers could be worth something,
>>>>rather than costing me time and money (although I look very popular
>>>>because my phone rings all the time.)
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Steve Totaro
>>>>
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I couldn't find any information on Neustar's site regarding accessing their DB, and I certainly don't want to pay someone like Mblox 3-5cents per lookup. And I'm guessing accessing Neustar's DB is not going to be cheap anyway, does anyone know their costs?
ThanksAlan
--- On Thu, 7/31/08, Miles Scruggs <asterisk@wideideas.com> wrote:From: Miles Scruggs <asterisk@wideideas.com>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Wireless lookup service
To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion" <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 6:57 AMYou can port both ways, landline to wireless, and wireless to landline. So original blocks are now meaningless you have to do near realtime lookups against the Neustar DB.CheersMilesOn Jul 31, 2008, at 6:49 AM, Al Lougher wrote:
You are correct, I missed that. For some reason I thought portability only applied to wireless numbers, I didn't realize you could port from land line to wireless. Can that happen with all major US carriers or say just AT&T?
Thanks
Alan
--- On Thu, 7/31/08, Kevin P. Fleming <kpfleming@digium.com> wrote:From: Kevin P. Fleming <kpfleming@digium.com>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Wireless lookup service
To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion" <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 6:13 AMAl Lougher wrote:
> Thanks for the info. For some reason I thought Paul had shut his
> business down sometime ago otherwise that would
have been my first stop.
> I do know he had the data previously because I bought some data over a
> year ago. I seem to remember the carrier information was not 100%
> accurate, however determining the carrier is not a priority, as long as
> it tells me it's wireless that's all that matters. It is my
> understanding carriers purchase blocks of numbers so really even if
> NPANXX lookup gives me the answer then that's all I need.
You missed the entire point of the previous messages in this thread; now
that the US has number portability, 'number blocks' are a thing of the
past. I have many friends who have ported previously-wireline numbers
onto wireless services, but if you go by the 'number blocks' those
numbers will appear to be wireline.
Depending on how accurate your 'wireless or wireline' query needs to be
(and the potential ramifications of it being wrong, say, if you
are
telemarketing) this could make a big difference.
--
Kevin P. Fleming
Director of Software Technologies
Digium, Inc. - "The Genuine Asterisk Experience" (TM)
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| I couldn't find any information on Neustar's site regarding accessing their DB, and I certainly don't want to pay someone like Mblox 3-5cents per lookup. And I'm guessing accessing Neustar's DB is not going to be cheap anyway, does anyone know their costs? Thanks Alan --- On Thu, 7/31/08, Miles Scruggs <asterisk@wideideas.com> wrote: From: Miles Scruggs <asterisk@wideideas.com> |
It is carrier neutral; as far as I am aware, any wireline number from
any carrier can be ported to wireless, but not all wireless numbers can
be ported to wireline (obviously the system could handle it, but
wireless carriers are not yet required to allow it).
--
Kevin P. Fleming
Director of Software Technologies
Digium, Inc. - "The Genuine Asterisk Experience" (TM)
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Lane
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld
-----Original Message-----
From: Al Lougher <alougher@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 06:49:06
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Wireless lookup service
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You are correct, I missed that. For some reason I thought portability only applied to wireless numbers, I didn't realize you could port from land line to wireless. Can that happen with all major US carriers or say just AT&T?
Thanks
Alan
--- On Thu, 7/31/08, Kevin P. Fleming <kpfleming@digium.com> wrote:From: Kevin P. Fleming <kpfleming@digium.com>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Wireless lookup service
To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion" <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 6:13 AMAl Lougher wrote:
> Thanks for the info. For some reason I thought Paul had shut his
> business down sometime ago otherwise that would have been my first stop.
> I do know he had the data previously because I bought some data over a
> year ago. I seem to remember the carrier information was not 100%
> accurate, however determining the carrier is not a priority, as long as
> it tells me it's wireless that's all that matters. It is my
> understanding carriers purchase blocks of numbers so really even if
> NPANXX lookup gives me the answer then that's all I need.
You missed the entire point of the previous messages in this thread; now
that the US has number portability, 'number blocks' are a thing of the
past. I have many friends who have ported previously-wireline numbers
onto wireless services, but if you go by the 'number blocks' those
numbers will appear to be wireline.
Depending on how accurate your 'wireless or wireline' query needs to be
(and the potential ramifications of it being wrong, say, if you are
telemarketing) this could make a big difference.
--
Kevin P. Fleming
Director of Software Technologies
Digium, Inc. - "The Genuine Asterisk Experience" (TM)
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N.
Al Lougher wrote:
> You are correct, I missed that. For some reason I thought portability
> only applied to wireless numbers, I didn't realize you could port from
> land line to wireless. Can that happen with all major US carriers or
> say just AT&T?
>
> Thanks
>
> Alan
>
>
> --- On *Thu, 7/31/08, Kevin P. Fleming /<kpfleming@digium.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: Kevin P. Fleming <kpfleming@digium.com>
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Wireless lookup service
> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion"
> <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
> Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 6:13 AM
>
> Al Lougher wrote:
> > Thanks for the info. For some reason I thought Paul had shut his
> > business down sometime ago otherwise that would
> have been my first stop.
> > I do know he had the data previously because I bought some data over a
> > year ago. I seem to remember the carrier information was not 100%
> > accurate, however determining the carrier is not a priority, as long as
> > it tells me it's wireless that's all that matters. It is my
> > understanding carriers purchase blocks of numbers so really even if
> > NPANXX lookup gives me the answer then that's all I need.
>
> You missed the entire point of the previous messages in this thread; now
> that the US has number portability, 'number blocks' are a thing of the
> past. I have many friends who have ported previously-wireline numbers
> onto wireless services, but if you go by the 'number blocks' those
> numbers will appear to be wireline.
>
> Depending on how accurate your 'wireless or wireline' query needs to be
> (and the potential ramifications of it being wrong, say, if you
> are
> telemarketing) this could make a big difference.
>
> --
> Kevin P. Fleming
> Director of Software Technologies
> Digium, Inc. - "The Genuine Asterisk Experience" (TM)
>
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| You are correct, I missed that. For some reason I thought portability only applied to wireless numbers, I didn't realize you could port from land line to wireless. Can that happen with all major US carriers or say just AT&T? Thanks Alan --- On Thu, 7/31/08, Kevin P. Fleming <kpfleming@digium.com> wrote: From: Kevin P. Fleming <kpfleming@digium.com> |
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