Saturday, May 31, 2008

Re: [asterisk-biz] How is Skype pulling this off ?

--- On Sat, 5/31/08, Trixter aka Bret McDanel <trixter@0xdecafbad.com> wrote:

> You may be able to get along for a while with no conversions,
> but there will come a time when the advertisers demand conversions
> or no money - unless of course they start out that way, which some
> do, commission only.

And commission only = no money. ;)

If users don't click and don't convert, there's no commission to
be paid. Sure, you'll get the odd user who does convert, but the
statistics will be horrible - something like 1 conversion out of
every 1 million ad views. Ok.. maybe I'm exaggerating, but any
internet ad which is not HIGHLY targeted gets one click out of a
few thousand views if you're lucky, and out of those clicks 1%
or less will actually buy. So we're talking 1 commission for
every X hundred thousand users.

> skype hasnt yet and its been years. First they did totally
> completely free. Then they did $15/year. Then $30/year. Now
> $6/month. While its a gradual increase in price over that 2
> or so year window, it isnt bad.

Well, there is a reason why they're raising prices. :)

> Skype also makes money in other ways than just minutes.
> They sell DIDs (if you dont have one your ani/clid is often
> 0000012345 or something) and who knows they may even get
> compensated on the inbound - if you goto a telephone company
> saying "we have 200 million users" you can negotiate
> slightly differently than if you go "we have a single
> asterisk box and hope to get some users someday".

That is probably true.

> Skype also charges higher rates on the destinations that
> are not included in your monthly plan. So for example if
> you get flat rate US, and you call the UK you are paying
> a higher than most rate for that UK call.

You know, there is definitely something to this one. We have
some users we signed up as beta testers. Their US calls are
completely free, but their international calls are paid. To
my surprise for those users who call internationally, the
profit from their international calls pretty much covered
the cost of their US calls!

> Needless to say there are a lot of ways for a company such
> as skype to lower costs and increase revenue streams. There
> are probably some I didnt yet mention.

True, but overall I don't believe they're really making money
with a "10000 minutes for $3" type deal. Sure, Joe Average will
only use 500 minutes a month, but then you'll get all the folks
who figure out they can make a killing by reselling Skype minutes.

But hey, time will tell...

-- Nitzan


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Re: [asterisk-biz] How is Skype pulling this off ?

On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 23:37 -0700, Nitzan Kon wrote:
> Good luck to you. But I hope for your sake your pockets are
> VERY deep. You can't get something from nothing, and you will
> have to pay for the calls your users make. If you can subsidize
> it with advertisements and such, all the power to you - but in
> my opinion ad-supported free calling won't work unless you're
> pretty strict on how much calling credit you hand out. If you
> give out too much, you won't make enough ad revenue to cover
> calling costs. If you give out too little, users will see it
> as too annoying and quit using it.
>

no to mention what drove some people away from ad based revenue 10 years
ago, and that is ROI, or conversion rates. Just having enough ads isnt
always enough, your users also have to click on those ads and then from
the clicks a certain amount have to turn into sales.

You may be able to get along for a while with no conversions, but there
will come a time when the advertisers demand conversions or no money -
unless of course they start out that way, which some do, commission
only.


> In the end, it's all economics - you can't take a product which
> costs money (i.e. calling minutes) and turn it into "free". Skype
> will end up getting a whole bunch of abusers on their network and
> lose a lot of money until they shut it down. MagicJack will take
> the money and disappear. Other such companies will have the same
> fate.
>

skype hasnt yet and its been years. First they did totally completely
free. Then they did $15/year. Then $30/year. Now $6/month. While its
a gradual increase in price over that 2 or so year window, it isnt bad.

Skype also makes money in other ways than just minutes. They sell DIDs
(if you dont have one your ani/clid is often 0000012345 or something)
and who knows they may even get compensated on the inbound - if you goto
a telephone company saying "we have 200 million users" you can negotiate
slightly differently than if you go "we have a single asterisk box and
hope to get some users someday".

Skype also charges higher rates on the destinations that are not
included in your monthly plan. So for example if you get flat rate US,
and you call the UK you are paying a higher than most rate for that UK
call.

Skype also peers with some of the larger providers via SIP using G.729
(shhh its a secret) and has for some time.

Skype utilizes customer computers as part of their network turning some
of the users into supernodes carrying some of the traffic, basically
offloading cpu/network reducing their costs.

Needless to say there are a lot of ways for a company such as skype to
lower costs and increase revenue streams. There are probably some I
didnt yet mention.

--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com

Bret McDanel
Belfast +44 28 9099 6461 US +1 516 687 5200
http://www.trxtel.com the phone company that pays you!


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[asterisk-biz] Grandstream product reseller in China or Asia?

Hi folks,
 
its a while im looking for grandstream suppliers in Asia/China/Mideast with competitive prices hoplessly. Anyone could help in this regard.
 
Cheers.

Friday, May 30, 2008

Re: [asterisk-biz] How is Skype pulling this off ?

Good luck to you. But I hope for your sake your pockets are
VERY deep. You can't get something from nothing, and you will
have to pay for the calls your users make. If you can subsidize
it with advertisements and such, all the power to you - but in
my opinion ad-supported free calling won't work unless you're
pretty strict on how much calling credit you hand out. If you
give out too much, you won't make enough ad revenue to cover
calling costs. If you give out too little, users will see it
as too annoying and quit using it.

In the end, it's all economics - you can't take a product which
costs money (i.e. calling minutes) and turn it into "free". Skype
will end up getting a whole bunch of abusers on their network and
lose a lot of money until they shut it down. MagicJack will take
the money and disappear. Other such companies will have the same
fate.

The only company which does manage to offer "free" calling is
Betamax. Why? because it's not free. You BUY free days, which
makes it not free (but still very cheap).

I do agree with your assessment in general though. Although I
don't see what Skype is doing (or will do) as a major problem
for VoIP or for the market. The market is booming for VoIP, and
one company (Skype, MagicJack, etc.) collapsing will not change
anything. Sure- it'll make people think twice before jumping on
the next "all you can talk" bandwagon, but reputable providers
with a proven track record will still gain market share.

Just my .0323 cents. ;)

--- On Fri, 5/30/08, Mohammed Lambat <duxy786@googlemail.com> wrote:

> From: Mohammed Lambat <duxy786@googlemail.com>
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] How is Skype pulling this off ?
> To: asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com
> Date: Friday, May 30, 2008, 12:20 PM
> The Skype model has created a lot of stir in the Telecoms
> market since its
> launch and until its demise in to the black hole of Ebay.
> For one, it has
> proved that calls over the Internet work and people are
> willing to use it;
> however, this model has also proved that giving something
> away for nothing
> has no real rewards.
>
> Consumers on the other-hand embrace the model and love the
> idea of FREE,
> this in turn had a negative impact on VoIP especially for
> medium/large
> enterprises that were looking in to VoIP and discovered
> Skype, and turn
> their back on it. Real VoIP is noway near as simple or
> cheap to deploy as
> Skype made out to be and these associated cost as usually
> passed down to
> consumers on a commercial model. VoIP is still a lot
> cheaper than PSTN
> deployment and most opportunities are ready and waiting to
> be snapped up in
> emerging markets. Just to give you an idea, I received a
> call last week from
> a contact within a large international telecom provider,
> who is looking to
> deploy Asterisk in Africa. They are looking for team who
> can deploy, support
> and maintain the infrastructure of I quote; "8
> potential installations which
> run from Telco's with just 300k subs through to 8.5mil
> subs" (we, at
> Pophongo, are too busy to take this on, however, any
> interested parties
> contact me off list to discuss this). Skype giving away 10K
> minutes, will
> just result in another failed attempt to make a viable
> telecoms business.
>
> For those of you that have never spoke to me, which is a
> majority in this
> list, I am currently working on a project which will turn
> this whole
> argument on its head. Just to give you all a little clue,
> have a look at
> http://www.pophongo.com, am not going to say a whole lot
> more, but what I am
> going to say is, taking on the Skype model and
> re-establishing a market
> after Skype in the VoIP arena is going to be difficult for
> anyone, so were
> planning something away from all this chaos....watch this
> space….
> Mohammed
> Pophongo.com_______________________________________________
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>

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[asterisk-biz] route5060.com

have u people tried it ?

i found it today, and it is a great great web site for selling and buying routes.


>
> I have premium code listed below available to buyers.
>
> Minutes for sale.
>
> This is for UK premium calling.
>
> UK premium codes 44118 xxx.
>
> UK premium codes 0871 and 0872.
>
> Please leave message with an email address or contact number.
>
> Wilfred.
>
>
> Get 5GB of online storage for free! Get it Now!

Rehan Ahmed AllahWala
Msn/Yahoo/GoogleTalk/Email: Rehan@Rehan.com
http://www.supertec.com/ - Internet Telephony Solutions
Http://www.DIDX.net - DID Number Market Place.
Don't Remember Me ? Visit http://www.Rehan.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
By Gandhi.

"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." - Gandhi


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Re: [asterisk-biz] route5060.com

On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 19:13 +0000, Tony Mountifield wrote:
> But +44118 doesn't translate to 118, it translates to 0118, and is the
> normal geographical code for Reading. I've no idea why the OP said it
> was premium rate.


not to nitpick but this is a pet peeve, 0 is a dialing prefix not part
of the number, all it does is say "I am dialing someone in a different
city/exchange but still in the same country". I do not know if this is
what he meant but the real number would be +44118 for reading (assuming
you are right on the city, which I will go ahead and do). 0118 is a UK
national dialing prefix of '0' plus the city code 118.

And to take this slightly further and make a request for all
providers :) It would really be better if dialed numbers and caller id
was all presented as e.164 and all things like national dialing
prefixes, etc were removed. A problem I see, which exists in multiple
countries, is for caller id if its international you get the country
code, if its domestic you do not, but you have no way of knowing whether
that is the case or not so you have to do a whole lot of munging to try
to figure it out. The same goes with dialed numbers, some providers
want a + prefix, some want 011/00 (another dial prefix), etc. Just
normalize it all and let the end equipment create the dialplan the
customer is comfortable with (ie short dialing for same city, they
select if they want 00 or 011, etc).


--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com

Bret McDanel
Belfast +44 28 9099 6461 US +1 516 687 5200
http://www.trxtel.com the phone company that pays you!


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Re: [asterisk-biz] route5060.com

ummm...what prevents route5060.com from burning the carrier (seller)?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Mountifield" <tony@softins.clara.co.uk>
To: <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] route5060.com


> In article <20080530155048.GB20340@colonelk.gbnet.net>,
> Steve Kennedy <steve-asterisk@gbnet.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 08:26:30PM -0700, Rehan Allah Wala wrote:
>> > have u people tried it ?
>> > i found it today, and it is a great great web site for selling and
>> > buying routes.
>> > > I have premium code listed below available to buyers.
>> > > Minutes for sale.
>> > > This is for UK premium calling.
>> > > UK premium codes 44118 xxx.
>>
>> 118 xxx is reserved for DQ services
>
> But +44118 doesn't translate to 118, it translates to 0118, and is the
> normal geographical code for Reading. I've no idea why the OP said it
> was premium rate.
>
> Cheers
> Tony
> --
> Tony Mountifield
> Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
> Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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Re: [asterisk-biz] route5060.com

In article <20080530155048.GB20340@colonelk.gbnet.net>,
Steve Kennedy <steve-asterisk@gbnet.net> wrote:
> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 08:26:30PM -0700, Rehan Allah Wala wrote:
> > have u people tried it ?
> > i found it today, and it is a great great web site for selling and buying routes.
> > > I have premium code listed below available to buyers.
> > > Minutes for sale.
> > > This is for UK premium calling.
> > > UK premium codes 44118 xxx.
>
> 118 xxx is reserved for DQ services

But +44118 doesn't translate to 118, it translates to 0118, and is the
normal geographical code for Reading. I've no idea why the OP said it
was premium rate.

Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org

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Re: [asterisk-biz] How is Skype pulling this off ?

The Skype model has created a lot of stir in the Telecoms market since its launch and until its demise in to the black hole of Ebay. For one, it has proved that calls over the Internet work and people are willing to use it; however, this model has also proved that giving something away for nothing has no real rewards.

Consumers on the other-hand embrace the model and love the idea of FREE, this in turn had a negative impact on VoIP especially for medium/large enterprises that were looking in to VoIP and discovered Skype, and turn their back on it. Real VoIP is noway near as simple or cheap to deploy as Skype made out to be and these associated cost as usually passed down to consumers on a commercial model. VoIP is still a lot cheaper than PSTN deployment and most opportunities are ready and waiting to be snapped up in emerging markets. Just to give you an idea, I received a call last week from a contact within a large international telecom provider, who is looking to deploy Asterisk in Africa. They are looking for team who can deploy, support and maintain the infrastructure of I quote; "8 potential installations which run from Telco's with just 300k subs through to 8.5mil subs" (we, at Pophongo, are too busy to take this on, however, any interested parties contact me off list to discuss this). Skype giving away 10K minutes, will just result in another failed attempt to make a viable telecoms business.

For those of you that have never spoke to me, which is a majority in this list, I am currently working on a project which will turn this whole argument on its head. Just to give you all a little clue, have a look at http://www.pophongo.com, am not going to say a whole lot more, but what I am going to say is, taking on the Skype model and re-establishing a market after Skype in the VoIP arena is going to be difficult for anyone, so were planning something away from all this chaos....watch this space….

Mohammed
Pophongo.com

Re: [asterisk-biz] route5060.com

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 08:26:30PM -0700, Rehan Allah Wala wrote:

> have u people tried it ?
> i found it today, and it is a great great web site for selling and buying routes.
> > I have premium code listed below available to buyers.
> > Minutes for sale.
> > This is for UK premium calling.
> > UK premium codes 44118 xxx.

118 xxx is reserved for DQ services

> > UK premium codes 0871 and 0872.

087x are being moved (or have been) to PRS type service and come under
PayPlus regulation (as was ICSTIS).

> > Please leave message with an email address or contact number.
> > Wilfred.

Steve

--
NetTek Ltd UK mob +44-(0)7775 755503
UK +44-(0)20 79932612 / US +1-(310)8577715 / Fax +44-(0)20 7483 2455
Skype/GoogleTalk/AIM/Gizmo/Mac stevekennedyuk / MSN steve@gbnet.net
Euro Tech News Blog http://eurotechnews.blogspot.com

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[asterisk-biz] UK PREMIUM DIALLING 118

I have premium code listed below available to buyers.
 
Minutes for sale.
 
This is for UK premium calling.  
 
UK premium codes 44118 xxx.
 
UK premium codes 0871 and 0872.
 
Please leave message with an email address or contact number.
 
Wilfred.


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Thursday, May 29, 2008

[asterisk-biz] Friday @12 PM EDT VOIP Users Conference

Hi all,

I was at Asterisk Tag in Berlin this week. Stefan Wintermeyer did a
fantastic job and apparently he's doing it again next year. I talked
to a few people there on the record, so I can play those interviews
today. Other than that, the subject is open and up for grabs.

Just before 12 Noon EDT, call :

- SIP/123@66.212.134.192,60,D(22622#1#)
-or- (724) 444-7444 and enter 22622# 1#
there is also a DNS: TS.X2Z.EU if you're too lazy to type 66.212.134.192

--- If you have a PIN, please use it rather than the 1#


All the details for hooking with us LIVE up can be found here:

*

http://VoipUsersConference.org

-or- http://x2z.eu (permanent short URL)

IRC for the back chatter is on Freenode.net #voip-users-conference

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Re: [asterisk-biz] How is Skype pulling this off ?

On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 15:31 -0700, Nitzan Kon wrote:
> They're assuming the average usage will be more like 500 minutes.
>
> If you really used 10000 minutes (or even close to that), I bet
> they'll boot you off their network faster than you can say "Skype".
> They say it's for "personal usage only" which is a license to kill
> anyone who even appears to be running any sort of business on it.


they are pretty good about holding to their fair use policies even when
they dont like the traffic, and even when they were doing the free stuff
or the $15/year stuff.


--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com

Bret McDanel
Belfast +44 28 9099 6461 US +1 516 687 5200
http://www.trxtel.com the phone company that pays you!


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Re: [asterisk-biz] ANI

Speaking of Law Enforcement...they are absolutely exempt from any anti-spoof laws
 
Seems both the Congress and the Senate believe there are some legitimate law enforcement reasons for spoofing.
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Nitzan Kon
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 19:18
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] ANI

Yep. True.

So the issue is not needing more regulation - but just how to be able to enforce existing regulation. Not something that more regulation by itself will resolve!

Of course for all these cases, there WILL be records allowing law enforcement officials (***who know what they're doing***) to trace back the calls. Even if you spoof ANI/CID - your call has to come from somewhere.

Let's take your 3AM campaign suggestion for example: the way the call will go is:

Culprit -> VoIP carrier who lets set CID/ANI -> ILEC or CLEC -> terminated to PSTN.

Tracing it back should not be a problem if you have the proper court orders, just find out with the terminating party which ILEC/CLEC they got the call from, then find out with the ILEC/CLEC which VoIP carrier they got the call from - and then finally get the customer records from the VoIP carrier.

Sure, it's not as easy as it used to be, and I may be over simplifying it - but it is possible and much better than trying to regulate who can and can't set CID. Punish the CRIMINALS - not the PROVIDERS.

--- On Thu, 5/29/08, Charles Vance <cbvance@msn.com> wrote:

> From: Charles Vance <cbvance@msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] ANI
> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion" <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
> Date: Thursday, May 29, 2008, 6:40 PM
> each of those scenario's involve either fraud or intent
> to do harm and are already prohibited
> in FCC regs even absent the "Truth in Caller ID
> Act"
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Steve
> Totaro<mailto:stotaro@totarotechnologies.com>
>   To:
> trixter@0xdecafbad.com<mailto:trixter@0xdecafbad.com>
> ; Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
> Discussion<mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
>   Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 18:22
>   Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] ANI
>
>
>   Setting up a drone Asterisk box to take hundreds of
> thousands of FTP
>   .call files at 3AM (by each time zone) and play pro
> Hillary Clinton
>   campaign messages (or whoever you don't like),
> obviously spoofing
>   her/his campaign headquarters caller ID and ANI.
>
>   Obtaining a new credit card from someone's mailbox
> with the sticker to
>   call from your home phone to activate the card.  Spoof
> their Caller ID
>   and ANI, activate, and buy some cool gadgets or whatever
> people do
>   with cards that don't belong to them.
>
>   Setting CallerID/ANI to clients', girlfriends',
> bosses' cell phone and
>   call until voicemail picks up, if no PIN is set, I have
> full control
>   of their voicemail (and could possibly call out, I will
> have to test
>   that with the call back option.  Then someone could
> really have some
>   fun depending on what messages they have saved)
>
>   So many exploits.....
>
>   Thanks,
>   Steve Totaro
>
>   _______________________________________________
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Re: [asterisk-biz] How is Skype pulling this off ?

Skype's still in the "we're losing money" stage. But they're doing
everything they can to grab customers right and left. The original idea
was for there to be a synergy between Skype and eBay, but eBay's never
been able to leverage that, and they're having second-thoughts about the
acquisition last I read, especially since it's been an expensive venture
that hasn't made any money for them.

Skype's current plan seems to be to do the VoIP equivalent of dumping --
selling services for a MASSIVE loss in order to drive everyone and
everyone over to the Skype side and push out every last bit of
competition they can. I imagine if they thought they were fueling
competition with this move, they'd kill it in a heartbeat.

They'll never really compete in the landline replacement area -- their
service simply isn't designed for that, and they're not interested in
it. But they can grab up every bit of random VoIP business they can from
the casual consumers with moves like this. Consumers of VoIP these days
are RARELY interested in anything other than the cheapest price. They
assume VoIP sucks for quality and are pleasantly surprised when they
discover it's not really any worse than a cell phone call. But they're
looking to spend as close to nothing as they can because they believe
that somehow, zero cents a minute is still competitive. People like that
flock to Skype in droves because Skype DOES offer something that seems
too good to be true. But they have the financial backing to offer it and
not care how much it loses them for now.

I keep hearing about the 'businesses that use Skype,' but I've never
actually run into one that uses it for anything other than the
occasional "salesmen can check in from the road" kind of perspective. It
just lacks the flexibility and mission-critical nature that companies
expect from both VoIP and their phone systems. Does anyone else know of
any companies that actually buy into Skype for business?

N.

Nitzan Kon wrote:
> They're assuming the average usage will be more like 500 minutes.
>
> If you really used 10000 minutes (or even close to that), I bet
> they'll boot you off their network faster than you can say "Skype".
> They say it's for "personal usage only" which is a license to kill
> anyone who even appears to be running any sort of business on it.
>
> Not to mention there's probably hidden fees, rate hike in the future,
> etc.
>
> Otherwise, it's not possible. If it's too good to be true- it isn't.
>
> -- Nitzan
>
> --- On Thu, 5/29/08, Justin Case <nogoodnameswereavailable@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> From: Justin Case <nogoodnameswereavailable@gmail.com>
>> Subject: [asterisk-biz] How is Skype pulling this off ?
>> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion" <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
>> Date: Thursday, May 29, 2008, 5:23 PM
>> Anyone know how Skype is pulling this off ?
>> http://www.skype.com/allfeatures/subscriptions/rowcountry/?country=US
>> Their fair usage is 10k minutes. If I used Chanskype and
>> blocked the CID
>> anyone can make a
>> mint._______________________________________________
>> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by
>> http://www.api-digital.com--
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>> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>>

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>>
>
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>

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Re: [asterisk-biz] ANI

each of those scenario's involve either fraud or intent to do harm and are already prohibited
in FCC regs even absent the "Truth in Caller ID Act"
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 18:22
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] ANI

Setting up a drone Asterisk box to take hundreds of thousands of FTP
.call files at 3AM (by each time zone) and play pro Hillary Clinton
campaign messages (or whoever you don't like), obviously spoofing
her/his campaign headquarters caller ID and ANI.

Obtaining a new credit card from someone's mailbox with the sticker to
call from your home phone to activate the card.  Spoof their Caller ID
and ANI, activate, and buy some cool gadgets or whatever people do
with cards that don't belong to them.

Setting CallerID/ANI to clients', girlfriends', bosses' cell phone and
call until voicemail picks up, if no PIN is set, I have full control
of their voicemail (and could possibly call out, I will have to test
that with the call back option.  Then someone could really have some
fun depending on what messages they have saved)

So many exploits.....

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

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Re: [asterisk-biz] How is Skype pulling this off ?

They're assuming the average usage will be more like 500 minutes.

If you really used 10000 minutes (or even close to that), I bet
they'll boot you off their network faster than you can say "Skype".
They say it's for "personal usage only" which is a license to kill
anyone who even appears to be running any sort of business on it.

Not to mention there's probably hidden fees, rate hike in the future,
etc.

Otherwise, it's not possible. If it's too good to be true- it isn't.

-- Nitzan

--- On Thu, 5/29/08, Justin Case <nogoodnameswereavailable@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Justin Case <nogoodnameswereavailable@gmail.com>
> Subject: [asterisk-biz] How is Skype pulling this off ?
> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion" <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
> Date: Thursday, May 29, 2008, 5:23 PM
> Anyone know how Skype is pulling this off ?
> http://www.skype.com/allfeatures/subscriptions/rowcountry/?country=US
> Their fair usage is 10k minutes. If I used Chanskype and
> blocked the CID
> anyone can make a
> mint._______________________________________________
> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by
> http://www.api-digital.com--
>
> asterisk-biz mailing list
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>

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[asterisk-biz] How is Skype pulling this off ?

Anyone know how Skype is pulling this off ?
http://www.skype.com/allfeatures/subscriptions/rowcountry/?country=US
Their fair usage is 10k minutes. If I used Chanskype and blocked the CID anyone can make a mint.

[asterisk-biz] German Toll Free number

We also need 2 German toll Free numbers.

We need high reliability

Moshe

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Re: [asterisk-biz] New York based Asterisk Users event this monday the 2nd of June at 6.30pm

I wont but I've cc'd in Ming who might be. Voiceroute have some pretty
good video demo's on their site so he probably has equipment to video
and post later.

I wont be allowing videoing of the asterisk appliance preview part of
the night - sorry you'll have to be there to see that part.

Cheers,
Dean


> -----Original Message-----
> From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-biz-
> bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Richard Lyman
> Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2008 2:45 PM
> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] New York based Asterisk Users event this
monday the
> 2nd of June at 6.30pm
>
> Dean Collins wrote:
> > This Monday evening the 2nd of June at 6.30 to 8.30pm we are having
a
> > 'revitalized' NY Asterisk Users Group event.
> >
> > The time is 6.30-8.30pm
> > The date is Monday 2nd of June.
> >
> > More details here http://asteriskpbx.meetup.com/2/calendar/7854072
> > and here http://druidny.eventbrite.com
<http://druidny.eventbrite.com/>
> >
> *snipped
>
> Neither site mentioned if anyone planned on doing a video/stream of
the
> event.
> If there is one i would love to see/watch it.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>

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Re: [asterisk-biz] New York based Asterisk Users event this monday the 2nd of June at 6.30pm

Dean Collins wrote:
> This Monday evening the 2nd of June at 6.30 to 8.30pm we are having a
> 'revitalized' NY Asterisk Users Group event.
>
> The time is 6.30-8.30pm
> The date is Monday 2nd of June.
>
> More details here http://asteriskpbx.meetup.com/2/calendar/7854072

> and here http://druidny.eventbrite.com <http://druidny.eventbrite.com/>
>
*snipped

Neither site mentioned if anyone planned on doing a video/stream of the
event.
If there is one i would love to see/watch it.


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Re: [asterisk-biz] New York based Asterisk Users event this monday the 2nd of June at 6.30pm

dean,
thanks for the heads up... I will be there because I don't want to be square!
daveC

Dean Collins wrote:

Hey all NY (or nearby) Asterisk users,

 

 

 

This Monday evening the 2nd of June at 6.30 to 8.30pm we are having a ‘revitalized’ NY Asterisk Users Group event.

 

SpecialAi have donated the use of their offices and we’re going to have Ming from Voiceroute demonstrating a whole heap of new functionality in the new open source version of Druid.

 

I’m also going to be bringing along a new very exciting Asterisk appliance that some of you have heard about but I haven’t shown to anyone publicly in the USA yet (for those of you who have known about this for a while – yes it’s finally here).

 

 

The time is        6.30-8.30pm

The date is        Monday 2nd of June.

The address is   SpecialAi offices - 4716 Austell Place 2FL, Long Island City, NY 11101

A map is here    GoogleMap

 

The SpecialAi offices are easy to get to from the hunters point ave 7 subway

or the court sq-long island city G

or the 23rd st E,V

( so make the effort it’s only LIC….not like you need to go all the way to Harlem or something like that J)

 

 

More details here http://asteriskpbx.meetup.com/2/calendar/7854072

and here http://druidny.eventbrite.com

 

Can you try and register at one of the two locations as Ming is shouting free pizza so would help with order guestimations so we don’t run short. 

 



Regards,

Dean Collins
dean@cognation.net
Cognation Limited
+1-212-203-4357
+61-2-9016-4652 (Sydney indial)


 

 
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[asterisk-biz] New York based Asterisk Users event this monday the 2nd of June at 6.30pm

Hey all NY (or nearby) Asterisk users,

 

 

 

This Monday evening the 2nd of June at 6.30 to 8.30pm we are having a ‘revitalized’ NY Asterisk Users Group event.

 

SpecialAi have donated the use of their offices and we’re going to have Ming from Voiceroute demonstrating a whole heap of new functionality in the new open source version of Druid.

 

I’m also going to be bringing along a new very exciting Asterisk appliance that some of you have heard about but I haven’t shown to anyone publicly in the USA yet (for those of you who have known about this for a while – yes it’s finally here).

 

 

The time is        6.30-8.30pm

The date is        Monday 2nd of June.

The address is   SpecialAi offices - 4716 Austell Place 2FL, Long Island City, NY 11101

A map is here    GoogleMap

 

The SpecialAi offices are easy to get to from the hunters point ave 7 subway

or the court sq-long island city G

or the 23rd st E,V

( so make the effort it’s only LIC….not like you need to go all the way to Harlem or something like that J)

 

 

More details here http://asteriskpbx.meetup.com/2/calendar/7854072

and here http://druidny.eventbrite.com

 

Can you try and register at one of the two locations as Ming is shouting free pizza so would help with order guestimations so we don’t run short. 

 



Regards,

Dean Collins
dean@cognation.net
Cognation Limited
+1-212-203-4357
+61-2-9016-4652 (Sydney indial)


 

[asterisk-biz] Swiss Toll Free DID

Can anyone supply a Swiss toll free DID via SIP?

Thanks
Moshe

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Wednesday, May 28, 2008

Re: [asterisk-biz] FREE 1800 termination Available

In the time it took you to write that email you could have tested it
at no risk. Really at the end of day this is just one of many
outbound providers you would likely have, not like what does and does
not work matters. You simple try to send a call to them if it fails
then fail back to what you presumably are already using and know works.

On May 28, 2008, at 9:07 PM, Trevor Peirce wrote:

> How does this work with geographically restricted numbers? For
> example,
> if a number can only be reached from the province of Alberta what will
> happen?


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Re: [asterisk-biz] FREE 1800 termination Available

Rehan Allah Wala wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> Free 1800 termination is now available from Carrierx.us
>
> Any one who sends any calls to number@carrierx.us the calls will go
> though multiple vendors.

How does this work with geographically restricted numbers? For example,
if a number can only be reached from the province of Alberta what will
happen?

Thanks,
Trevor Peirce

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Re: [asterisk-biz] FS: Genuine Digium TDM400 w/ 4xFXO (red) modules

Can't you guys do this offline?


-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 5:21 PM
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] FS: Genuine Digium TDM400 w/ 4xFXO (red) modules

Can we do this with an escrow service? I know it is a very small
amount of money, but those are usually the gotchas in my experience.

Where do you live? Maybe we can just meet up?

Maybe we can do do two PayPal transfers as well, $55 down and $55 on
reception and DOA testing.

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 2:39 AM, Eric Fort <eric.fort@gmail.com> wrote:
> PayPal I'd rather not as they have previously ripped me off but what would
> you say to $110 via paypal. That basically covers my cost to paypal and
the
> fact that it will not become cash in pocket as I'd like but rather
> restricted to buying toys on ebay.
>
> yes, I have 2 fxs modules on a seperate card but I need those. The rest
of
> the world I can connect to via SIP, internally I have some hardware (radio
> interfaces and the occasional pots device) that needs fxs complete with
48V
> and polarity reversal. mostly I've moved to using gateways like those
from
> grandstream and I've been quite happy with that. more boxes but much less
> hastle, higher density too along with easier placement of hardware.. If
you
> need them I just found a rocking great price on the green modules see ebay
> Item number: 320301000660. I don't know or have any relation with the
> seller but he seems to be someone I'd buy from based upon his ratings.
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Steve Totaro
> <stotaro@totarotechnologies.com> wrote:
>>
>> It's a deal, except for the mailing of the check/money order. Would
>> PayPal work?
>>
>> Also, to you have any green (FXS modules) I could you two or four.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Steve Totaro
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Eric Fort <eric.fort@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > How's $100 by postal mail sound? It saves me the fees and trouble of
>> > online
>> > payment and I'llpay the shipping.
>> >
>> > Eric
>> >
>> > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 5:59 AM, Steve Totaro
>> > <stotaro@totarotechnologies.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 8:57 AM, Steve Totaro
>> >> <stotaro@totarotechnologies.com> wrote:
>> >> > On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 8:32 PM, Eric Fort <eric.fort@gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> I have a TDM400 Rev. F board with 4 sequentially numbered rev. C
FXO
>> >> >> modules
>> >> >> installed that I no longer need. The board, pulled from a working
>> >> >> system
>> >> >> and guaranteed against DOA, complete with all 4 FXO modules is
>> >> >> available to
>> >> >> the best reasonable offer. pending no bytes the board goes to ebay
>> >> >> next
>> >> >> week, but I wanted to offer the list the opportunity at a better
>> >> >> deal
>> >> >> first
>> >> >> - it saves me the fees and gets the card gone with cash to apply to
>> >> >> other
>> >> >> projects. please make an offer.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Eric
>> >> >
>> >> > Eric,
>> >> >
>> >> > Why not cut to the chase and let us know what the lowest price you
>> >> > will accept is? Obviously, people are going to low ball you and
>> >> > waste
>> >> > your time.
>> >> >
>> >> > I don't bother making offers because if it acceptable to you, then I
>> >> > have wasted my time.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> > Steve Totaro
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Typo: acceptable = unacceptable.
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >> AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona
>> >> Register Now: http://www.astricon.net
>> >>
>> >> asterisk-biz mailing list
>> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>> >> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> > AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona
>> > Register Now: http://www.astricon.net
>> >
>> > asterisk-biz mailing list
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>> > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>> >
>>
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>
>
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[asterisk-biz] Polycom and GN Netcom Closeouts

I have a quantity of New, Factory Sealed Polycom and GN Netcom stock we are looking to clear out.  Please email me if interested.

 

Polycom IP600 SIP – New in Box Sealed – (21) Units Available - $165/ea

 

Polycom IP601 Sidecar / Expansion Module – New in Box Sealed - (40) Units Available - $100/ea

 

GN Netcom GN9330-HL Wireless DECT 6.0 USB Headsets w/Handset Lifter – New in Box Sealed – QTY AVAIL - $150/ea

 

Cory J Andrews

Director, New Market Initiatives

 

Sayers Media Group

 

454 Sonwil Drive

Buffalo, NY 14225

716-250-3402 OFFICE

716-630-1548 FAX

716-601-4474 MOBILE

Candrews@SayersMedia.com

 

NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any document attached hereto is intended only for the named recipient(s). It is the property of the VoIP Supply, LLC and shall not be used, disclosed or reproduced without the express written consent of VoIP Supply, LLC. If you are not the intended recipient, nor the employee or agent responsible for delivering this message in confidence to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error, and any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmittal and/or attachments in error, please notify me immediately by reply e-mail or telephone and then delete this message, including any attachments. Our mailing address is 454 Sonwil Drive, Buffalo, NY 14225 USA.

 

[asterisk-biz] Fwd: Re: Need White Tunisia Route

Sorry All,
Before we all get excited, I made a typo...for Tunisia mobile read 19, NOT 10!

----- Forwarded message from booty@ukonline.co.uk -----
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 13:26:54 +0100
From: booty@ukonline.co.uk
Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Need White Tunisia Route
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>

Hello,

We offer premium white routes to Tunisia.
Capacity no problem, billing pulse by second or minute, real-time call records,
managed service also available.

Cost.
Land - 12 Euro cents
Mobile = 10 Euro cents

Ring me if interested
0044 7788783181
or
0039 3289398295
Regards,
Mo.

http://www.telpoint.co.uk


Quoting Stéphane LASSERRE <stephane.lasserre@iradium.fr>:

> Need white AND grey to Tunisia
> - GSM around 5E1
> - Fix around 5E1
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
>
> asterisk-biz mailing list
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>

http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>


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Re: [asterisk-biz] Need White Tunisia Route

Hello,

We offer premium white routes to Tunisia.
Capacity no problem, billing pulse by second or minute, real-time call records,
managed service also available.

Cost.
Land - 12 Euro cents
Mobile = 10 Euro cents

Ring me if interested
0044 7788783181
or
0039 3289398295
Regards,
Mo.

http://www.telpoint.co.uk


Quoting Stéphane LASSERRE <stephane.lasserre@iradium.fr>:

> Need white AND grey to Tunisia
> - GSM around 5E1
> - Fix around 5E1
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
>
> asterisk-biz mailing list
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>

http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>


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Re: [asterisk-biz] Need White Pakistan Route

Hello All,
We offer low cost white routes to Pakistan.
Premium route with CLI, billing pulse per second/minute, real-time call records.
Managed service also available.

Cost (dependent upon volume):7.5 Euro cents
Regards,
Mo.

http://www.telpoint.co.uk
0044 778878 3181
or
0039 3289398295


Quoting info@dialontel.com:

> Hello Everyone,
>
> Please let us know if anyone has any cheap white routes to Pakistan.
>
> Thanks,
> Dennis
>
>


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Re: [asterisk-biz] DID for Callback

I use IPKALL.COM .....Totally free DID's. Works great.


From:  "Cyriaz@Gmail.com" <cyriaz@gmail.com>
Reply-To:  Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
To:  asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com
Subject:  [asterisk-biz] DID for Callback
Date:  Wed, 28 May 2008 12:42:13 +0400
>I am looking for US DID for callback trigger with atleast 10 channels.
>Please provide rates.
>
>_______________________________________________
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Re: [asterisk-biz] Need White Tunisia Route

Hi,
 
We do offer Grey and White route to Tunisia.
 
White Route
Land 0.178
Mobile 0.302
 
Grey Route
Land 0.153
Mobile 0.211
 
Please let us know targets for better prices.
 
Thanks,
Dennis

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [asterisk-biz] Need White Tunisia Route
From: Stéphane_LASSERRE <stephane.lasserre@iradium.fr>
Date: Wed, May 28, 2008 12:39 am
To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion"
<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>

Need white AND grey to Tunisia
- GSM around 5E1
- Fix around 5E1




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[asterisk-biz] DID for Callback

I am looking for US DID for callback trigger with atleast 10 channels.
Please provide rates.

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Re: [asterisk-biz] Softphone Embedded in web page

Guys, for comparision, you might want to take a look at our offering,

http://www.phonefromhere.com

We have extensive experience helping people integrate our web-based
softphone.

We have recently won prizes for our integration with twiddla, igoogle,
linkedin and
myspace.

Contact me if you have any questions.

Tim.

On 28 May 2008, at 05:02, Moshe Maeir wrote:

> Craig -- I would like to hear more about this, if you plan to offer it
> to 3rd parties.
>
> Moshe
>
> Craig Lawrence wrote:
>> Thanks Charles
>>
>> We've already written our own Java API into Asterisk and a Java based
>> version of an PBX management interface - and having now checked
>> with the
>> engineers they estimate that an embedded webpage softphone wouldn't
>> require much effort to finish before skinning in customer branding.
>>
>> If we do the dev ourselves we can also add other features such as a
>> user
>> phonebook (buddies list and a list of most recently dialed numbers,
>> etc).
>>
>>

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[asterisk-biz] Need White Tunisia Route

Need white AND grey to Tunisia
- GSM around 5E1
- Fix around 5E1


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Tuesday, May 27, 2008

[asterisk-biz] Need White Bangladesh Route

Hello Everyone, 
Please let us know if anyone has any cheap white routes to Bangladesh. 
Thanks,

Re: [asterisk-biz] Softphone Embedded in web page

Craig -- I would like to hear more about this, if you plan to offer it
to 3rd parties.

Moshe

Craig Lawrence wrote:
> Thanks Charles
>
> We've already written our own Java API into Asterisk and a Java based
> version of an PBX management interface - and having now checked with the
> engineers they estimate that an embedded webpage softphone wouldn't
> require much effort to finish before skinning in customer branding.
>
> If we do the dev ourselves we can also add other features such as a user
> phonebook (buddies list and a list of most recently dialed numbers,
> etc).
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Craig Lawrence
> Chief Executive Officer
> Mytel Voice & Data Pty Ltd
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
> [mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Charles
> Woods
> Sent: Tuesday, 27 May 2008 8:20 PM
> To: asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com
> Subject: [asterisk-biz] Softphone Embedded in web page
>
> Hello List,
>
> Mexuar Communications have a softphone solution - Corraleta.
>
> Corraleta is a java applet so the size of the softphone is tiny at
> 125kb,
> there is no software to download, its platform independent and you can
> customise the front end so instead of a button you can design a keypad
> to
> make it have the look and feel of a phone.
>
> More info can be found on the blog
> http:\\mexuarapps(dot)blogspot(dot)com
>
> Any readers wishing to try out Corraleta we can cut a test licence.
> Please
> contact me off list.
>
> Thanks for reading.
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles.
>
> Charles Woods
> Sales & Marketing Dir.
> Mexuar Communications Ltd
> Tel +44 (0)161 866 0028
> Mobile +44 (0)7894 338260
> www.mexuar.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> asterisk-biz mailing list
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>

http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>
> _______________________________________________
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> asterisk-biz mailing list
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>

http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>
>

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[asterisk-biz] FREE 1800 termination Available

Dear All,

Free 1800 termination is now available from Carrierx.us

Any one who sends any calls to number@carrierx.us the calls will go though multiple vendors.

I encourage you to try it and send me your feedback.

If you signup for www.carrierx.us you can view your traffic stats also,if you do not signup,
you can still use it but their calls wont be logged.

CarrierX is a small service of superTec.com that is used by us for our outbound traffic.

Rehan


Rehan Ahmed AllahWala
Msn/Yahoo/GoogleTalk/Email: Rehan@Rehan.com
http://www.supertec.com/ - Internet Telephony Solutions
Http://www.DIDX.net - DID Number Market Place.
Don't Remember Me ? Visit http://www.Rehan.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
By Gandhi.

"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." - Gandhi
 

Re: [asterisk-biz] Need White Pakistan Route

Hi Dennis!
 
Pak White route is available @ 9.5c with CLI, Also UAE route is available as low as 13c.
 
Thanks
Regards,
 
Zulqarnain
 
 
> Hello Everyone,
>
> Please let us know if anyone has any cheap white routes to Pakistan.
>
> Thanks,
> Dennis

Re: [asterisk-biz] FREE 1800 termination Available

Yours

On 5/28/08, Alexander Lopez <Alex.Lopez@opsys.com> wrote:
> What ANI is placed on the outbound call???
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
> [mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Rehan Allah
> Wala
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 11:47 PM
> To: asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com
> Subject: [asterisk-biz] FREE 1800 termination Available
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> Free 1800 termination is now available from Carrierx.us
>
>
>
> Any one who sends any calls to number@carrierx.us the calls will go
> though multiple vendors.
>
>
>
> I encourage you to try it and send me your feedback.
>
>
>
> If you signup for www.carrierx.us you can view your traffic stats
> also,if you do not signup,
>
> you can still use it but their calls wont be logged.
>
>
>
> CarrierX is a small service of superTec.com that is used by us for our
> outbound traffic.
>
>
>
> Rehan
>
>
>
>
>
> Rehan Ahmed AllahWala
>
> Msn/Yahoo/GoogleTalk/Email: Rehan@Rehan.com
>
> http://www.supertec.com/ - Internet Telephony Solutions
>
> Http://www.DIDX.net - DID Number Market Place.
>
> Don't Remember Me ? Visit http://www.Rehan.com
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you,
> then you win."
>
> By Gandhi.
>
>
>
> "Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live
> forever." - Gandhi
>
>
>
>

--
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com

Rehan AllahWala
http://www.SuperTec.com - Tomorrow's Technology, Today.
http://www.didx.net - World's Biggest Number Trading Platform.

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Re: [asterisk-biz] FREE 1800 termination Available

What ANI is placed on the outbound call???

 


From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Rehan Allah Wala
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 11:47 PM
To: asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com
Subject: [asterisk-biz] FREE 1800 termination Available

 

Dear All,

 

Free 1800 termination is now available from Carrierx.us

 

Any one who sends any calls to number@carrierx.us the calls will go though multiple vendors.

 

I encourage you to try it and send me your feedback.

 

If you signup for www.carrierx.us you can view your traffic stats also,if you do not signup,

you can still use it but their calls wont be logged.

 

CarrierX is a small service of superTec.com that is used by us for our outbound traffic.

 

Rehan

 

 

Rehan Ahmed AllahWala

Msn/Yahoo/GoogleTalk/Email: Rehan@Rehan.com

http://www.supertec.com/ - Internet Telephony Solutions

Http://www.DIDX.net - DID Number Market Place.

Don't Remember Me ? Visit http://www.Rehan.com

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

By Gandhi.

 

"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." - Gandhi